This says what I've been saying: 1. many comtemporary self-described "feminists" (crypto-pseudo-feminists) are DOING IT WRONG because they are promoting 2. hatred and vilification of men and 3. institutionalization of female victimhood. They need to close the doors and move on to the next stage. Men have a lot of issues that they need help on and probably can't help themselves with (circumcision, homophobia, overwork and denial of pleasure, etc.) and women need to step up and CPFs are being a bunch of narcissistic whiners.
[Check it out, the host is way pregnant -- I hope she brings her baby with her on camera later -- that would be cool!]
don't appreciate being targeted. Given how long, how many marches and
demonstrations I've been in, how much money I've donated to women's
causes over the years, the things I've written, said, and done, the
sacrifices I've made and the times I've put my career, reputation, and
personal safety on the line for (ortho-)feminism (NOT
crypto-pseudo-feminism), you'd think I'd at least be spared this kind of
believe, and have believed since I was a small child, where I grew up
in Idaho Falls in the 70s where women literally had no rights, smart and
capable women were kept down, that women's liberation is probably the
most important cause there is because it will probably lead to automatic
solutions to problems like overpopulation, war, and inequality. That
was an article of faith for me -- I still have no proof, and the
rhetoric and increasingly destructive actions of the so-called
"feminist" movement are crushing that faith and leading me to despair.
like this article, and like your response, it is only telling half the
story. Yes, I have never, ever disagreed with the assertion that women
are oppressed and a lot of really horrible things are done to them. I
must confess that I'm more moved by horrible things happening to women
than the same things happening to men, even if they happen to men more,
whatever they be, and I think we all do, probably because at many levels
women really are just more important.
women are getting hurt, getting cheated, getting told they're no good
(and then being made to swallow it and believe it), all of which is
absolutely true, why do you have to LIE on top of all that and say that
nothing bad ever happens to men and that men are all every single one of
us personally responsible for every bad thing that happens to every
Why do you have to say that?
we were about solving these problems, then it wouldn't make sense to
say that. It would make sense to admit openly that rape and violence
and fear and body shaming and eating disorders all happen to men, too,
and that they're important problems for everybody. It's true. Oh,
wait, all of those have personally happened to me, but nobody's writing
any articles like that for me or my ilk. That makes me angry. It makes
me angry because the women's movement I saw doing such great things in
the 70s and 80s is being turned into a sham by these kinds of
I'm a people-pleaser, maybe I'm trying to get something by being a
do-goody-two-shoes. Well, Planned Parenthood, the Idaho Midwives, NOW,
and a host of others all cashed my cheques. Many women have accepted my
help, with their careers, their relationships, their schoolwork, their
children, but so-called feminists have always treated me with suspicion
as have "regular" people, too, I guess. Who knows what they're thinking?
I can't make anybody accept me as their ally, but the fact that
so-called "feminists" don't seem to want allies is suspicious.
not arguing that women have it bad. In fact, many of the women I grew
up with had it so pounded into them that they can't do serious jobs and
make real engineering or other salaries that they may never recover from
it. That's horrible. I'm relieved to see that the next generation
seems to be escaping that. That's this country. Other countries, like
Japan, had the sense for longer not to treat their girls like this. Why
do we? An interesting question for later (which I have been working on
for some time).
not arguing whether women have it bad. If you think that, then you missed
it, and we're done. We can start this conversation over.
you're arguing that women have it bad and men absolutely don't then
you're just plain wrong, and you got nothing. You don't have an
argument is more subtle. Women have it bad (duh). Men also have it
bad, but I don't know what to do about it (maybe it can't be fixed --
more on that later). I tend to feel more compelled by the suffering of
women than that of men (as we all seem to). I think we can actually do
something about a lot of the suffering of women, because a lot of it is
not seriously engrained and rooted in the basic functioning of our
society. We NEED twice as many engineers, and ASAP. We need twice as
many businesspeople. We NEED twice as many good government people.
not sure what the numbers are for the suffering of men, except they're
not zero. Rape, violence, body and sexual shaming, marginalization, etc.
The problem is that we may not be able to solve them for men at least
until after we have solved them for women. Women are starting to get
out from under it, and now they're turning on men rather than helping!
Gloria Steinem promised we would benefit, too! As I told her during the
Q&A at her U of Idaho speech (yes, that's yet another feminist
function I've attended) that it's probably easier to get women INTO the
job market than it is to get men OUT. But we probably need to do a lot
of that. There are a lot of other things men are stuck in.
1. War ("a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" US Post Office)
2. having to work your whole life away until you die
3. not getting to have feelings
5. routine infant genital mutilation
6. 10 to 1 higher rate of imprisonment (also death penalty)
7. 6 TIMES more likely to commit suicide
8. 30 times more likely to suffer workplace accident
don't NEED to be all labeled as rapists, subsumed into this vague
notion of The Patriarchy (which victimizes us as much as it victimizes
women). We've got enough on our plates already, but thanks for offering.
end up seeing my son for a total of about 5 hours this trip, which is
the first time in 3 1/2 years, but I just have to accept this and many
other things because as my divorce lawyer (a women -- I always try to
engage female professionals, at least until the so-called "wage gap"
goes away) said "you're the wrong gender".
to my point. Men's suffering, the points above, which are "separate"
from the stuff that both genders suffer, may be unsolvable. If our
society continues to have a structure of war and oppression, then men
will always have to be the ones who are the police, the soldiers, the
torturers, not because we are inherently evil, but, and this is a subtle
point, because we are EXPENDABLE. If I get killed in a war or
whatever, they may have a parade, but my kid will still have a mommy,
and that's all that really matters to anybody. People don't care if men
suffer, if they die in wars with a cruelty we usually spare even
insects, if they rot in prison by the millions, if they are put to death
by the state, if they labor away in coal mines or fall off of roofs of
buildings they build in winter or hot summer or if they commit suicide
in ridiculous numbers. Nobody cares. It's all entertainment.
might say that women are made to suffer because somebody wants them to
do something, like have sex, have a baby, stay home or in the harem and
do menial stuff where you won't get hurt so you'll always be there,
while men are made to suffer because somebody wants something done, and
they may be tortured and killed to frighten the others because the men
women suffer. It breaks my heart. I've been fighting for their rights,
probably more than most, for some 40 years. To say (or imply) that
somehow men DON'T suffer undermines your argument, makes you sound like
some kind of whiner, like you're trying to establish permanent
victimhood in order to get privileges. Please stop it. You're ruining
everything when you do that.
not hearing solutions. I'm not hearing ideas for how to change things
so that women can have it easier, so their specific issues (many related
to their reproductive powers) don't trip them up or prevent entry into
whatever they want to do. We spend millions on wheelchair ramps and
special elevators (which is great) for the disabled people whom in my whole career I have
never personally worked with, but NOTHING for something like nursing
areas, unisex restrooms, etc. -- I'm not saying that these are the
solutions but there doesn't even seem to be a DEBATE on it. Am I the
only one noticing these things? I often feel like the only other sound
is this background whining and complaining.
these people were about liberation, wouldn't there be proposed
solutions? All I hear is surprise and stuff like "I never thought of
that. That might be a good idea. It's so amazing to hear a MAN say
that" (God, if I never hear that again, it will be too soon).
if it wasn't bad enough, women have decided that it's okay to attack
men just because we're men and we're obviously to blame for everything,
we're all rapists and dangerous to women, and threatening to children. I
have been attacked like this. It terrified me. I'm terrified, I'm sick
of all the stupidity and sewing of hatred, and I'm deeply suspicious of
what's behind it. I'm deeply thankful that there are women out there
who still have the courage and good sense to question it openly.
that article is all you have to go on, then you have nothing. I'm not
disagreeing with any of it, except that it only tells half the truth,
which is a typical tactic these days. If you don't think I care about
the plight of women, then you do me a great disservice.
could go on for dozens of pages more, but I think I'll put a pin in it
here. If you notice any errors of fact or logic in the above, please
let me know, otherwise, I think we might be done here
is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect,
solidarity, and education. We may argue, we may disagree, we may
struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes,
but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they
agree with your definition of feminism, and that's why I use the term
crypto-pseudo-feminism for people who say they're for all of those
things, but are in fact doing completely different things. I'm partial
to the term "ortho-feminist" for somebody who REALLY walks the walk.
I see you have a lot to say and with all due respect, when you post an
article like that you are asking for feedback and debate. And honestly, I
think You are missing the whole point. Just because feminism is trying
stop the devastating oppression
and abuse of women by no means promotes the hatred or abuse of men. As a
matter of fact the feminist movement has allowed men to step out of the
shadows to speak about their own abuse and experiences with abuse. For
future reference, please feel free to express how you feel with whatever
I post. However, if you must go on a diatribe to hear yourself talk "as
you expressed" please pm me:0) thanks for sharing.
don't ever talk to me about walking the walk. When you have spent hours
in the emergency room with men, women and children victims, worked with
victims of human trafficking and held the hands of people that have
been beaten within an inch of their life. You can begging to talk to me
about walking the walk.
don't make up strawmen. I'm not saying anything about what you do. I
thought it was clear that I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many
people who preach gender equality then systematically magnify female
victimhood and demonize men and ignore their
suffering. Don't personalize. Don't anthropomorphize "feminism" as
having "intentions" -- the actions of individuals are making feminism
look bad and turning off a lot of women, which is what I thought we were
talking about. We already agree perfectly on what feminism is. Please
don't post some article like the above (I won't bother describing it)
and then tell me to read it and then say that I'm wrong for responding.
I feel like I'm being attacked and bullied and made into a whipping boy
and there is plenty of evidence to support that. I don't deserve that.
Nobody deserves that, least of all me. If you just want to bully
somebody and not discuss the facts or the issues, that's fine, not nice,
but fine as long as you're honest about it and don't try to dress it
hurt, and angry, and terrified, and you're just giving me more reason
and evidence that it's not crazy to be that way, that it's not my
imagination. I'm being targeted not because of what I've said, but
because of my gender and for expressing sincere disappointment in a
cause which I've long supported and held dear and which has since been
hijacked and gone wrong.
believe this [feminism] is a hard word for people to feel comfortable with using
because they either don't understand it, or they have seen over extreme
versions of what people think it means burned into their minds. I love
your definition of the movement, I believe more people should read this
and really understand the message before jumping to conclusions.
was sitting in my history class in college, and our teacher asked who
was a feminist in the room... 90% of the class didn't even know what the
word even meant. And more than half the room were women.
Its sad lol.